On 26 June a new problem arose for State Secretary Weekers of Finance. Business News Radio revealed that there is large-scale fraud in the import of second-hand cars from abroad. Appraisers and traders deliberately estimate the value too low, so that less BPM is paid when importing second-hand cars from abroad. And that means: less tax revenue.
By: Erik van Putten
Hind legs
The whole of the car-appraising Netherlands is on its back legs, because this branch of sport does not want to be shaven. Certainly the recognized appraisers were not amused about the BNR report. A discussion arose about appraisal methods and judgments of the Supreme Court in which it was stated that also unauthorized appraisers - that is, dealers - may determine the value of an imported car.
Secondary discussions
I think they are discussions that divert attention from the real problem. There is also no system in this area that covers such malpractices. As a result, the tax authorities are missing out on an amount of € 60 million. De Bovag now proposed, through Paul de Waal, to have the value of an imported car determined at the location of the RDW inspection. I have a completely different proposal: just look at the price of the car according to the ANWB price list. In addition, you develop value tiers for damage, accessories and further the condition of the car. For example, recognized appraisers - just like in the housing market - have good tools to determine the value. And rule out all ambiguity and inadequacy.
New sling
For the time being, these developments are once again creating a blow to the State Treasury. Earlier there was a sooty and smoky MRB agreement that was achieved from the Hague side thanks to blackmailable practices. These went hand in hand with the systematic refusal to pass on financial consequences.
Extra asset
It is striking that Wouter van Embden and his team have an extra trump card precisely because of the import fraud. Because the position of the State Secretary is increasingly under pressure. As a result, the foundation can now better convince the exemption of oldtimer Weekers and its officials of the necessity of calculated scenarios. The then inescapable indulgence of the Secretary of State then leads to the maintenance of the motor vehicle tax exemption for cars older than 30 years. I stated it earlier via these columns: this only produces a financial spin-off: work, a recovering sector, sales tax, VAT and insurance tax.
And what remains for the State Secretary? It will then be given the time and opportunity to correct historical and costly weaving errors. That is the best behavioral effect that Weekers and his followers can sort.
The vrijstellingoldtimer.nl foundation still needs massive support. If you have not signed yet, do so.
I doubt whether commotion about possible incorrect appraisals is justified. A valuation is by definition relative. This government has called it over itself because it felt it had to make a depreciation table itself in order to be able to charge a rude BPM on that basis. It goes without saying that this value can vary considerably depending on the circumstances of the market and this list does not take this into account in any way. It is also really crazy that the government will determine the value of a car. Go with a car to be traded in to different car dealers and you will be surprised at the differences in trade-in value.
The value of a car on the basis of the depreciation table in terms of BPM is rattling on all sides. As far as the (import) value of old-timers is concerned, I have even seen that some customs posts used “the classics” as a guideline to determine the value. Anyone with some knowledge of cars and sufficient common sense knows that those appraisal values hardly have anything to do with reality.
In addition, it may be clear by now that our directors are not at all interested in the actual figures that could jeopardize their plans. They, and our court jester Rutte, are only interested in beautiful pictures that they can present to present beautiful figures, at least on paper. They are not interested in the fact that reality can mean that their plans will have adverse results (no extra revenue but even a loss to the state treasury)
John, it's not 30 or 40 cents, it's 1,07 a liter by tax. And why let LPG and diesel pay for everything. fortunately I am free of all misery with that old-timer on the left in the picture. but that car of mine runs on LPG and that is still clean fuel.
By the way, on the website of the national government:
Purpose of adjusting exemption mrb
The MRB depends on the CO2 emissions of a car. The higher the emissions, the more tax you pay. That does not yet apply to old-timers. With the amendment of the law, the cabinet wants to ensure that owners of polluting old-timers also pay mrb. Especially old-timers that run on diesel or LPG are polluting. There is a lower mrb rate for petrol vintage cars, because they are less polluting. In addition, owners of these vintage cars often make less use of their car.
http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/autobelastingen/vraag-en-antwoord/wat-is-de-overheid-van-plan-met-de-motorrijtuigenbelasting-mrb-voor-oldtimers.html
Niek, just as I indicated in my previous response, it was more than clear to me that the scheme is not about combating environmental pollution, I simply cite it as the reason why I think that road tax should be paid for old-timers at all. Moreover, you are talking about so-called green cars, but road tax must also be paid for this in 2014 (or at least in the coming years)? Why then should oldtimers be an exception to this?
Sylvia, please read my reaction, because I do not indicate that the regulation has to do with the environment. Of course the government does this to catch money, I only indicate that I personally find it strange that vintage cars should be / remain free of road tax at all, because research shows that old-timers have a relatively large share in the environmental pollution. That is why I think the reason my father gave `` has turned out that more is coming in to the tax from the industry than from the MRB if a certain percentage of classic car owners sell or suspend their car '' is not enough to say that classic cars should be road tax free
Cynthia, read the regulation as well, has nothing to do with the environment, especially the "transitioners" between 30 and 40 years old. Petrol car will be taxed max. 120 euros per year, gas fully taxed…. am I crazy? something with gas and cleaner?
Moreover, this is a considerable re-cycle industry, many companies have the right to exist and we pay more VAT on parts and repairs. Driving cheaply? You should definitely not drive an old car.
Niek Hoogendoorn That's right, I drove 50/50 diesel / sunflower oil. That went fine, the zbo cost 63 cents / l at Aldi, the following week 1,29! Dark forces must have been active there….
Niek Hoogendoorn The biggest problem is the number of star riders who have absolutely nothing to do with a classic and simply want to ride cheaper.
I can keep the limit at 1986 and limit the import so that the real enthusiasts can keep their hobby.
But if all calculations are done correctly, I can say on a note that there is considerably less money coming in on excise duties and also less VAT from the oltimers.
It is even cheaper for many people to buy an economical diesel with road tax.
It's just a shame that rare oltymers are disappearing abroad because of this arrangement.
And then the depreciation of the many cars that does not benefit the crisis either.
Cynthia Bonhof recreational travel? With current fuel prices? You're kidding.
Cynthia Bonhof do you know what percentage of the MRB is used to overcome the environmental effects of (classic or otherwise) automobiles? Knowing this, you will understand that it is not at all about reducing automotive pollution. It's just about money. Believing that the environment benefits from banning old-timers I find very naive, especially when you know how much pollution is caused by the production of so-called green cars such as the Prius and related eco-lofts. Anyway, everyone can have an opinion ...
Hans, where can you find cheap plant oil nowadays?
You must have also noticed that a few years ago ALL supermarkets suddenly increased the price of sunflower oil collectively from 50-60 cents per liter to more than 1,30 euros per liter. You CANNOT convince me that there are NO price agreements here, whether or not through the intervention of our government. > :-(
Personally, I think it's a shame, because my oldtimer runs 1 in 5… and if I can save a few cents then I like to. A salient detail is that ZBO is better for the environment than diesel. This just for the tree huggers among us. 😉
Okay, but then we are only talking about the tax revenues of the government ... A study by the PBL (at the request of the Ministry of Infrastructure and the Environment) shows that old-timers have a large share in environmental pollution. It is increasingly used for daily travel and not only for recreational travel, because the old-timers have become much more popular because you do not have to pay road tax for them (think of recession). So based on environmental pollution, I think that road tax should be paid for old-timers.
http://www.pbl.nl/publicaties/2012/milieueffecten-van-oldtimers
That as a government you want to tackle the daily classic car driver, there is something to be said for it, the scheme is not intended for that. But please don't deal with the hobbyist now, what will be possible here in NL? Just ridiculous. A child from the class has stolen something and the whole class is being punished. In addition, an industry is being turned away and part of the money collected can be spent on unemployment benefit. A short-sighted short-term vision.
And the fact that LPG and diesel drivers have to pay the full price is not an issue at all, an old-timer is an old-timer even if it runs on coal. Let people in The Hague keep their accounts properly, millions in benefits disappear and who knows what else to fellow EU people and we can give up our hobby for that. Awesome! 🙁
I am able to suspend my current (hobby) diesel from 1982 and buy one from 1974 and then my current contemporary car goes on sale. They will get nothing more from me. And then preferably driving on vegetable oil, which indeed saves 1,07 euro excise duty per liter. If they are going to ruin my hobby then just like that.
Spoke to a Scotsman while on holiday in Ireland. What is happening with us now, they have also had in Scotland. It has emerged that the old-timers of 25 years and older do not pay MRB to keep the industry alive. A study has shown that more tax comes in from the industry than from the MRB if a certain percentage of classic car owners sell or suspend their car.
Just like last week (29) at BNN could be seen and heard, about the gasoline price in it she was finely calculated what the tax captures per 1 liter, which is 58% or 1,07.
And next year maybe pay a lot for the MBR. I only have an aow and so far I can make ends meet, but not next.
In the survey I had already written that I have my camper in a row in the courtyard and set it on fire, I have nothing more to lose.
What matters to me is when this tax gangbang will stop, we will be caught from all sides by our government, think about how much tax money you have already spent driving a car, it is really absurd, BPM, road tax, fuel tax (30 or 40 cents per liter), insurance tax, etc.
And this year it is already the umpteenth time that the oldtimer is being tackled and what for, tax money !!
Paul Kuypers ... We live in a democracy and I understand that you sometimes get angry (more and more often) because you feel caught ... But with tact and arguments we achieve more than ordinary primitive reactions ... Imagine that everyone who disagrees with someone else grabs an ax etc. and just goes to get his own rights ... Then we are much further off the path than now ... In the end, it is all about money and the shore will turn the ship automatically ... Ultimately, many of the government decisions are counterproductive because you does not address the real issues. Namely reforming the state finances in a 21st century, where sustainability, self-reliance and self-confidence will eventually win over fear and distrust and short-term visions…. A friend of mine once said: 'Everyone only wants your money'… The same goes for the government, so we cannot be completely surprised, the government is also trying to get the budget in good faith. It is a pity that politics (European and National) and economists do not find each other in a short-term transcending vision in which we dare to completely transform our lifestyle into one where we take responsibility for our own life and that of the generation after us , our own children… It has never gotten better with me, me, me.
Get a budget in good faith? You apparently have more confidence in this hypocritical government than the average Dutch person. Everything seems that rücksichtlos money is being raked. The insurance tax (I can not find where it serves except as a supplement to the state treasury) is roughly increased. A VAT increase that does not even lead to an extra return. If our incompetent politicians are not able to control the costs, they always take the easiest way to rake money: raise excise duties. In the past they took the trouble to tell us that it is better for the citizen. Nowadays they don't even take that trouble anymore. It is more than clear to me that no sensible regulation can be expected from a government that has made itself dependent on such taxes.
ok then sorry, let my feeling run free
Nevertheless, I find this no place for threats, serious or not.
one heel in the skull and one in the back
I spoil every abuser of power who sows the ordinary hard-working people and the neck pulls on everything that is bad, after all we deserve it for them
Totally agree Chris Bakker
That fraud with inport cars is as old as there are cars in the 60s, they were even sawn in two pieces and the front crossed a different border than the back to be reassembled in the Netherlands and then they got a DD license plate (German Dent) and that playing on the man of Paul Kuypers is not at his place. As far as I am concerned, that discussion is a bit over and it starts to look like nagging.
Hey Paul Kuypers, just stay in balance dude, we are not going to threaten or curse anyone… The fact is that the government has committed itself (via Brussels) to cut back, cut back and make another cut. Practically every economist agrees that you are just cleaning yourself out of the crisis there. No, they have to bend over and invest, that would show decisiveness. And then when the economic flywheel of the Dutch economy is running at full speed again, you have to further bend and modernize and slim down in terms of government and in 'good' times you have to see reserves, so below 3%, as far as I am concerned with you strive towards 0%… But if the 'flywheel' stagnates, you shouldn't also put all kinds of spokes in the wheel that also hinder the 'flywheel' from getting back up to speed under its own power.
Well .... "Proud of the Netherlands!" Aaarghh
Politicians now also know what the whole of the Netherlands knew, they have a record for their head from here to Tokyo!
Politicians now also know what the whole of the Netherlands knew, they have a record for their head from here to Tokyo!
from me, those weekers, together with his fellow idiots from pvda and vvd, can make use of that reduced redundancy pay scheme as soon as possible !!
those nasty nerd weekers that I would like to place a hatchet in the back of his skull, and some more in the 2e room
let's just hope that loss of face is not the only reason to push the matter…. because this government is floundering over and over again, etc….
The problem is that the government does not include side effects in ANY decision. Datr was confirmed by officials during the negotiations. Obviously too crazy for words, but the effect of suspensions, sales and bankruptcy and the unemployment benefits are simply ignored.
let's hope so, but sooner or later such figures will go very hard on their flat b ...
They automatically fall into their own sword
yes incomprehensible
Or they have another argument to push their way ... yet another blunder of Weeker's club ... and still remain in office as if it were all normal ...
Just forgot, but it is now there
Handy to put a link so you can draw.